When??

Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Article comment by: Yep, there is plenty of water

Mr. Tarson...realtor

How short sighted can you actually be???? Water is a FINITE resource and to be approached with conservation in mind not "Currently" there is plenty of water..." CURRENTLY is the key word. I guess you beleive that 100 years is ENOUGH? Ill bet your one of those uneducated people who beleive our government will step in and create water when it runs out!! Of course they will...they are doing such a great job at running our country into the ground current day. Im sure they will save our a--- when the water runs out...and it WILL! Maybe we need to start telling the world that Mohave County doesnt protect their own water supply....I wonder how many companies and buyers we will attract then!

Posted: Wednesday, July 22, 2009
Article comment by: willie

Dont you justr love someone that is in Planning and Zoning, that cant read the abstract in the U.S.G.S. report it states that the Hualapai Aquifer is in depletion. It's right in the beginning. Before you pick and choose what you want to write please open your computer and go to the U.S.G.S. site and it clearly states the problems in the Aquifer's. Remember once the water is gone it is gone folks. Just read Jack's response and his correct figures. Just look at the 2006 report #10. Remember the County paid 100,000. of taxpayer's money to go towards this report. It almost reminds me that per Sun West Biofuels comment Biodiesel plants dont explode - anyone read the Biodiesel plant explosion in Chicago - I guess Sun West didnt either!

Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2009
Article comment by: Todd Tarson

@ jack... since you like math so much, check my figures on this.

First, I'm going to start with some information I found on the ADWR web site. It seems they did some report back in 2006 that had some data pertaining to estimated groundwater storage (from a 1994 report) in the aquifers of Mohave County and reported rates for how many acre feet were being harvested out of said aquifers as late as the year 2000.

According to the ADWR report from 1994, there was 13,000,000 million acre feet of water storage in the three aquifers.

The amount of water pumped out of the aquifers in the year 2000 was 11,000 acre feet (again according to the report found on the ADWR website).

I'm going to make one assumption, in your favor, for the rest of this equation. I'm going to assume that for the 15 years (between 1994 and now) that our community pumped out 22,000 acre feet of water per year. By doing that my math tells me that we used 330,000 acre feet in those 15 years. Subtract that figure from the 1994 reported 13,000,000 million acre feet of water storage and it leaves us with 12,670,000 acre feet to use, save, look at, whatever.

Given that set of figures, if we -- the fine citizens of Mohave County -- were to use up every single last drop of the storage in the next 50 years, we'd have to find a way to power through an average of 253,400 acre feet a year. Over 10 times more than in my purposely overinflated assumption (based on the ADWR report).

How much on average to use up all the water in 100 years?? 126,700 acre feet per year.

How about in 250 years?? 50,680 acre feet a year.

Let's try 500 years... 25,340 acre feet a year on average.

Again, check my math, check the ADWR report.

Another figure that I intentionally left out of the equation here is the aquifer recharge rate. From the same 2006 ADWR report, it was noted that findings back in 1986 showed the combined annual rate of aquifer recharge was 9,000 acre feet.

Now I'm not to be confused as a government official with a degree in hydrology... I'm just a dude that happened across an Arizona government website looking for some facts about water in the aquifers of Mohave County. To this point, it is the best data I have found.

But unless something official looking appears that matches the shrill prognostications of the water worry warts, I'm in support of using what seems to be a vast natural resource to help lure new economic opportunity to this area. Economic activity that holds the promise of jobs, investment, and increased tax revenue to help fund schools, roads, and other services.

Judging by the numbers provided in the ADWR report, there's a lot more water than there is positive economic activity right now.

So just how will we use the 4 trillion, 166 billion, 260 million, 896 thousand gallons of water left in the aquifers?? (assuming my assumptions based on the ADWR report and my math is somewhat close to correct)

Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2009
Article comment by: No name provided

[Deleted -- Read Terms of Use]. Believe it or not folks there are realtors out there that want only smart growth. The kind of growth that supports a bright future for Moohave County and not growth that only allows growth and profit to a small handfull of developers. When you look for a realtor look for the enlightned ones that know that our water supply is the only link to a real secure future and the sustainabilty of property values here in Kingman.

Posted: Tuesday, July 21, 2009
Article comment by: Todd Tarson

13 million acre feet of water in the aquifers according to the last USGS survey/report in 2005.

100 years worth of water for a population of over 300,000 people.

Currently there is plenty of water... and no jobs.

Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2009
Article comment by: jack

While I agree with the statement that Kingman needs more good paying jobs for our young people, I also think that this proposed new power plant should be dry cooled--- OR --- be cooled with wastewater effluent of some sort from the city's treatment system.

Aren't we spending some $30,000,000.00 dollars of tax payers money (along with state and federal grants) to up grade the treatment system?? WHY?? because both of kingman's wastewater treatment systems are in constant violation of A.D.E.Q. standards for the past 3 or so years.. Now, if we want to look at the math to tell us just what 3000 acre feet really amounts to, in gallons, (something we can more easily understand) let's look,,, one acre is 43,560 square feet,, one acre foot of water is one acre covered to a depth of one foot,, or said another way,, 43560 cubic feet of volume.. One cubic foot contains 7.48 gallons of water, so let;s do the math,, 43560 cu,ft X 7.48 gal/ cu,ft = 325,828.8 gallons in 1 acre foot.. now they say they MAY use 3000 acre feet in a year, so let's do the math again,, 325,828.8 gallons in 1 acre foot times 3000 acre feet in one year = 977,486,400 gallons.. That's 977 million 486 thousand 400 gallons PER YEAR !!! I am not at all sure that our underground water supply could support that amount of water being withdrawn for the LONG TERM without any "damage" to the supply..

Wasen't there some words about the county wanting to keep 3500 acre feet of RIVER water for industrial usage?? Whats wrong with that water?? I trust that if we were to let them use that water, then we would be accused of not wanting industry in Kingman, why? Because if they were to use the river water they would need to be closer to the river to avoid the high cost of transporting the water 20 miles UPHILL to Kingman.. Let's not forget that this number is about the same water usage than say 9000 homes using 250 gallons per day each, want to see the math?? 9000 homes X 250 gal/day X 365 days/year,= 821,250,000 gal/year

Please try to keep a perspective of the numbers and what they relate to.. 9000 homes for the same amount of water as one power plant EXCEPT !!! WHERE DO ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THESE 9000 HOMES WORK ??? You guessed it there is silver bullet or magic fix, we need to let this power plant operate with treated wastewater or use dry cooling or settle for 9000 homes filled with more "newly weds" and "nearly deads".

Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2009
Article comment by: LOL...the truth and nothing but the truth....

Valley Vista Neighbor....

LOL....how hilarious you are. [Deleted]. The developers have requested 4,000 acre feet per year. Do you honestly believe that these highly paid lobbyist tell you the TRUTH! Plllleeeeaaassseeeee.. they will (and do) tell you ANYTHING to manipulate you into ignoring the FACTS. [Deleted]! Thank GOD that the majority of this citizenship know the TRUTH and have reacted accordingly. If the BOS approves this project despite the facts before them there will be a recall. Citizens groups are lawyering up just like the big boys do and they should expect a hard and cruel counter attack. This community has had enough of the corruption and the lack of protection of our water supply by the elected elitist. Lets face it folks our tax dollars are being eaten up by the favoritism and idiotic decisions made by these power junkies! ITS TIME FOR THIS COMMUNITY TO KICK THESE LIARS OUT!

[Portions of this comment have been deleted • Read Terms of Use]

Posted: Sunday, July 19, 2009
Article comment by: Jelly

Nancy, if the jobs came as you want (which everyone wants) where will they get their water? NO WATER=NO JOBS. Water really must come first. If the water is used efficiently more jobs will be realized in the future. It's common sense, don't you think?

Those fighting for the best use of the county's water seem to be aired in a bad light, I strongly feel these people should be listened to. Water is gold, the county needs to treat it as so. At some point the county needs to start looking at water as THE only growth issue and stop thinking only about money that can be made today. With no water there will be no growth. The county needs to start thinking of the future with no water instead of only thinking of the present possible growth. It's about the BLUE not the GREEN right now. Without the BLUE there will be no green, no matter how you look at it.

Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2009
Article comment by: Roy

I repeat I don't have a problem with solar plants. I do have a problem with steam turbine plants and all the problems they bring. Noise, use of ground water, disposal of lubercants, use of fosil fuels to fire them at night. I think we need new buisness in this county, just not more steam turbines like the ones that we aready have. Let's have a solar photaic farm put in there, no noise, no ground water, no lubercants. I realize the return for the guys like Chong,(another Bernie Madoff) is far lower because they take longer to pay for themselves. We need to control the kind of new developement that comes into our county or we all will be living next to a steam turbine plant.

Posted: Saturday, July 18, 2009
Article comment by: Capitalist with Conscience

I think I have it now. Leo couldn't sell houses in Silverado, and Rhodes couldn't sell his houses, either. Oh, my! What to do? Wait, can it be? Why, yes, there's a Washington bureaucrat with a poke full of subsidies riding to the rescue! All we need are some little sun-thingies, and we'll come out all right. Take that, you retire varmints!

To the deluded: What are you going to drink when the water's gone? Government can't mandate it, and electricity won't fix it.

Posted: Friday, July 17, 2009
Article comment by: Nancy

Keep whining and you can kiss another company goodbye. We need well paying jobs in this county. Not everyone is happy on the government dole. If you aren't retired or living off good ol mom and dad's money, young people need good jobs if they want to stay here.

Posted: Friday, July 17, 2009
Article comment by: Roy Trempy

I truly feel that this SOLAR PLANT should be a total DRY SOPAR PLANT without using any water whats so ever. If they need water, go down to the Colorado River & dry that up....

Posted: Friday, July 17, 2009
Article comment by: Valle Vista Neighbor

I should have hit Spell Check

Posted: Friday, July 17, 2009
Article comment by: willie

Is'nt it funny that the only one's that are in favor that was printed in the newspaper was from the blog comments and it was only one. And again another in favor in a blog. This same format was done for Rhodes homes. It is a divide and conquire format. Have the public come divide them in small groups so when they ask a question, the rest of the public can not hear the answer. The truth is Rhodes Homes needs this to go forth, in order to complete the sale of the property. This group again is dependent on stimulus money and stated so at the High School meeting. Again the majority of the residents are against this project for the massive amount of water it will use. If they go to a dry cool method everyone will welcome them with a Parade, and Marching Band. Again per the U.S.G.S. study ythe Hualapai Aquifer is in depletion, per the Mohave County General Plan, page 38 section 3.5 clearly states that when an Aquifer is in depletion all Power Plants are to be DRY COOLED. It is good for the Environment, it is good for future generations that yet to be born, and lastly it is good for the County to finally take a step in the right direction for a change! Instead of looking out for the Developers and ending up with nothing, but the taxpayers footing the bill again, and again, and again.

Posted: Friday, July 17, 2009
Article comment by: Valle Vista Neighbor

I attended both the stake holders meeting meeting the meeting at Valle Vista aned the meeting held at the Kingman High school. And talked to quite a lot of the people who attended. and I'm sorry for the few and I say very few who were present that opposed the project. The company presentation at the Stakeholders meeting where they invited the groups in the comunity who would have any concerns so they would have a time for open question and ask question in a Soapbox type of meeting was typical of a lot of the meeting I have attended here in Kingman over the last 30 years. were a few seem to run over the croad with the over baring approch. I walked around the meetings at Valle Vistat and at the Kingman High school listening and talking to people about their concerns trying to understad more about this type of company and what they will do, i was inpressed with the presentation. At many of the meeting I have attended over the years I never had an opertunity to ask question simply because it just sitting in these large room with a large number of people you sometime feel like asking question about issues may put you on one side of the issue or the other. but the One on One approach at the last two meetings I was made clear on the facts that I needed to know, That concerned Me, Our future. Being in kingman since 1978 I have met thousands of people from here and I don't exaggerate,, and beleive it or not over these years i have come to learn that most individules here are inteligent. and can see the facts for them selves and base their oppinions on fact. not just missinformation. As i listened at the meeting it was clear by a group of young men, "Our future" were brought to the meeting they represented them selves as a group of GREEN involved Highschool student. there may even have been a teacher with them, No this is what I'm talking about!!! young persons getting involved asking questions on of the gentalman at the meeting answerd question after question about who the plant was to operate what were these and those? with full explanation give. I was encourage that our youth were craving such knowledge. and spent so much time and Had their own oppinions I believe in our youth, I was one of them years ago. I was one of these kids, that I'm sure after I stated how enthused they were of a project that would do so much for our economy local economy will become a target from the few and I say few that seem to oppose it. Everyone in this country has a right to speak, everyone in this country has an oppinion but what makes this Counrty Great is that depite disagreemnet on topics the migority rules this is domocrisy what we all love and some have died for. Yes we can disagree but we all have a voice. and the voice I see has been very much in favor. I have a hard time hearing over and over again quotes from individule for and against any project that eludes to misinformation as quoted from one of the ladys who interuped my conversation I was having with these young men and one of the representives about ht economic impact stating that this solar plant would use 4000 acre feet a year I had to chuckle to see these young men chalange her with the facts that have been clearly printed on large boards right before their very eyes. LMAO when one of them walked over and pointed the numbers 2400-3000 acres feet LOL This brought back the memorys of me when I was a young man I also wanted the facts not someones oppinion, I can make up my own mind on the facts. the real facts. not what someone thinks are facts. any one can come up with a statment and say it for so long they believe it to be a fact. I admired those young men and would love the opertunity to sit and talk to them some more You boy keep up the thrist for Knowledge, and doing things right and take the lead from those whom you saw that opposed this solar plant or the way they think it should be build. and remember someday you could be old like me.LOL

now back to the issue I am fully convince I am in favor of this project. especailly when the facts were so plainly stated. And a note to those that disagree, their is nothing wrong with disagreeing you have your oppinion and i respect it I even listen to it. but if you want to be heard speak the trueth, not something made up scare tactic don't give you credibility esspecally with our youth. LOL and remember how we forget! it didn't work on use when we were young either. And for those that think I'm some mad up propaganda infiltrator. nice try send me an email and i will love to sit and talk with you. regniss2002@yahoo.com I'll even buy the coffee!